Discussion:
Hello, TML
Joshua Bell
2005-04-23 05:43:32 UTC
Permalink
Okay, let me officially de-lurk. Hello, TML!

Introduction:

My name is Joshua Bell. I just turned 32, and am Canadian by birth, but live
in Kirkland, WA, USA with my wife Susan and our 2-year old son Caspian. By
day I'm Lead Program Manager at Microsoft on the InfoPath product. By night
I'm busy with the aforementioned 2-year old, so there's not much else to
report. :)

Traveller Background:

I grew up in Calgary, Alberta, and was lucky enough to attend an
elementary/Jr. High school mere blocks away from The Sentry Box (if you're
not familiar with it, it has grown from a hole-in-the-wall game shop in a
strip-mall next to a tattoo parlor, to a multi-room store to now a
multi-floor warehouse of gaming that is probably unrivaled on the
continent). My friends and I were sucked into D&D when it was corrupting
North America's youth, but by the time I was 12 (1985) we'd moved on to
Traveller. Admittedly, we had short attention spans (and lived all across
the city with no cars and only somewhat pliant parents), so I can only
recall ever actually playing two or three gaming sessions.

But I was more into collecting the book and exploring the OTU. By the time I
stopped I think I had most of the Books, the Library Data Supplements, and
the (IMHO) cool stuff - most of the double-digit JTAS issues, Adventure 12
and the first 7 Alien Modules. Mmmmm, tasty alien secrets. Then pretty much
nothing for 20 years - I more time spent playing computer games, then
university, MUDs and such, then a career, etc.

(Look at the numbers and you'll note I completely missed the post-CT
developments. 2300 was just being announced, then MT looked... well...
trashy. I mean, purple and silver? And then there was GURPS, some funny
sounding thing by this guy who'd ran all those Car Wars ads in Dragon
Magazine.)

Flash Forward:

Wizards of the Coast stores sprung up in the Seattle area like weeds, then
almost overnight the collectable card game craze imploded and they all
vanished - but at least I saw the FFE reprints. Over the holidays this past
December I visited my parents and made my yearly pilgrimage to The Sentry
Box, and picked up the first JTAS reprint. Mmmm, nostalgia!

When I got back home I dug up my box-o-Traveller stuff and fell in love
again. Among my treasures at home was a hand-drawn poster of explored space
derived from the Imperium Map poster and the alien module sector names, and
dot-matrix printouts of sectors from an Apple II (in full 72-DPI glory) -
I've always been a map aficionado. Since then I've ordered a few more FFE
reprints and have started picking up other things on eBay. And, of course,
Googling for fun stuff.

Projects:

I'm always flitting from one project to another. I had an idea for a couple
of Traveller related projects so I thought I'd put something together before
saying "Hi!". I mentioned my "Alien Module 0: Vilani" project before. That's
basically stalled. But I got the other one to a somewhat presentable state.

I popped by http://jtas.net/travelleratlas/ and thought "cool!" at first,
then realized that most of the maps had been generated by hand. Aaaaaaah!
That just makes my teeth hurt with sympathy pain. Also, Google Maps had just
gone beta, and I found a copy of GURPS Traveller at Half Price Books (which
features the Imperium Map in a "console" frame) to I created a conceptual
blend of all of the above:

http://inexorabletash.members.winisp.net/maps/map.htm

I've tested in IE6 and Firefox (so it should work with the latest
Netscape/Mozilla browsers). Click and drag in the map, zoom in, go wild.
You'll need a decent 'net connection. Note that it's generating all of the
tile images on the fly, so I hope it can relieve some of the tedium of
maintaining projects like the one at jtas.net.

(If you're curious, it's a tiny C# ASP.NET app with less than 1400 lines of
code. There's a "readme" on the site with other details. And yes, I've fired
off the requisite mail to Marc.)

If you do just one thing with the map, set the scale to 64 (Subsector) and
select Regina/Spinward Marches.

If you do just two things with the map, visit Regina, but also set the scale
to 16 (Sector) and pan around the Imperium to get a sense of scale. (I also
recommend turning on "all" sector names.)

If you do just three things with the map, visit Regina, then pan across the
Imperium, but finally set the scale to 64 (Subsector) and select
Capital/Core. Then retrace the steps of the Sylean Federation Scout Service,
and try to make your way to Vland or Terra. It's a humbling trek.

..

I'd also like to share my thoughts on a research paper that recently crossed
my desk, titled succinctly enough "Applications of the 4 color printing
process in the Rule of Man". After finishing Stanislaw Lem's "A Perfect
Vacuum", a masterful work that I should have experienced much earlier in my
life and I heartily recommend to others, this pseudo-scientific treatise
seemed a relevant read to tackle next. Alas, especially when viewed in the
light of the prior text, this research paper left me disillusioned.

While the author should be commended for tackling such a difficult task, it
is clear that nearly any reader of "Applications." is likely to be
disappointed. Those readers who are unfamiliar with the debate - that subtle
differences between Solomani and Vilani color vision was a prominent factor
in both the rise and subsequent fall of the Ramshackle Empire - will be
bewildered by cursory detail that the author provides as background to his
hypothesis. More educated readers who are already aware of the controversy
will undoubtedly find that the detail of the investigation - such as the
psychological impact of subtle gamut shifts - are, while undoubtedly
groundbreaking in their insights and thoroughness, are too disconnected from
the larger psycho- and socio-historical analysis to support the conclusions
drawn.

As background for readers who fall into the former camp, perhaps it is worth
grounding the discussion. Researchers of the Traveller Canon established
many years ago that the fictional Vilani branch of Humaniti who populated
what they called the Ziru Sirka, or Grand Empire of Stars, and that within
the contemporary context is called the First or Vilani Imperium, differed
only slightly from the Solomani, or Terran branch. Among the subtle
differences documented were slight changes in proteins such as blood
clotting factors; this invariably led to the conclusion that many other
subtle physiological changes were implied. Chief among these was that color
vision would be slightly affected. Simply put, when compared to the Solomani
baseline, the Vilani would experience colors in a more vibrant fashion.

This is akin to the "taster/non-taster" genotypes, where one human genotype
("tasters") has a markedly higher density of taste receptors when compared
to the other ("non-taster"). The practical experience is that from a
"taster" perspective, "non-tasters" crave spicy food. From a "non-taster"
perspective, "tasters" prefer bland food. In each case, the preferred food
produces the required stimulation; too much or too little stimulation (by
spicy or bland food) is literally distasteful.

The impact of this on Vilani and Solomani vision and thus visual style
preferences is well documented in the TML Archives. From a Vilani
perspective, the Solomani prefer garish and busy schemes. From a Solomani
perspective, the Vilani prefer bland or muted colors. Interestingly, this
same facet is documented in reference works on the Vargr, who have even
further muted color experience than the Solomani, and thus prefer even more
use of vibrant and contrasting colors, to the point of being extremely
offensive to the Vilani.

Against that background (which should be familiar to all but the most
closeted of readers), the author of "Applications." attempts to show that
the CMYK, or four-color printing process, which is adapted to "real" human
(or Terran/Solomani) vision, would be ill suited for producing content that
would appease Vilani viewers. The core of the author's hypothesis is that
when faced with the garish four-color scheme as imposed by the Solomani, the
Vilani would be forced into a state of mild cognitive dissonance with any
printed material. Starting from this reasonably solid premise, the author
then leaps to unjustified conclusions.

During the Rule of Man, ". this would have applied to all aspects of printed
life," writes the author, ". from propaganda posters to the very paper
currency the Ramshackle Empire relied upon to stave off the inevitable Fall
of Night." While the scientific grounding of much of the paper, referencing
studies on color vision conducted with real humans and computer-simulated
gamut shifts measured against reading retention and task completion speed,
sets new standards for scientific research into fictional peoples,
inflammatory and obviously culturally biased claims positing the Solomani as
desperate conquerors detract from the impact of the work.

At the end of the day, "Applications." is fascinating, and for anyone
interested in scientific speculation within the Traveller Universe it sets a
high standard. I don't think I have seen such attention to detail in the
grounding research before. Unfortunately, the conclusions which are drawn
from the work are so tenuous that they should not appear in a scholarly
work, no matter how imaginary the subjects.
traveller
2005-04-23 10:38:14 UTC
Permalink
Hey Joshua,

Very way cool map! I love combining a database with a powerful front end...

One note - the dropdown for the scale - the background is black and tends to
get lost in the map.
I'm using IE6 on windows 2000 pro.

really, really nice. I think this is the best map I've ever seen.

Now - if you could impliment a search function...

and maybe jump routes...

;)

-joel

-----Original Message-----
From: tml-***@travellerrpg.com
[mailto:tml-***@travellerrpg.com]On Behalf Of Joshua Bell
Sent: Saturday, 23 April 2005 3:44 PM
To: The Traveller Mailing List
Subject: [TML] Hello, TML


Okay, let me officially de-lurk. Hello, TML!

Introduction:

My name is Joshua Bell. I just turned 32, and am Canadian by birth, but live
in Kirkland, WA, USA with my wife Susan and our 2-year old son Caspian. By
day I'm Lead Program Manager at Microsoft on the InfoPath product. By night
I'm busy with the aforementioned 2-year old, so there's not much else to
report. :)

Traveller Background:

I grew up in Calgary, Alberta, and was lucky enough to attend an
elementary/Jr. High school mere blocks away from The Sentry Box (if you're
not familiar with it, it has grown from a hole-in-the-wall game shop in a
strip-mall next to a tattoo parlor, to a multi-room store to now a
multi-floor warehouse of gaming that is probably unrivaled on the
continent). My friends and I were sucked into D&D when it was corrupting
North America's youth, but by the time I was 12 (1985) we'd moved on to
Traveller. Admittedly, we had short attention spans (and lived all across
the city with no cars and only somewhat pliant parents), so I can only
recall ever actually playing two or three gaming sessions.

But I was more into collecting the book and exploring the OTU. By the time I
stopped I think I had most of the Books, the Library Data Supplements, and
the (IMHO) cool stuff - most of the double-digit JTAS issues, Adventure 12
and the first 7 Alien Modules. Mmmmm, tasty alien secrets. Then pretty much
nothing for 20 years - I more time spent playing computer games, then
university, MUDs and such, then a career, etc.

(Look at the numbers and you'll note I completely missed the post-CT
developments. 2300 was just being announced, then MT looked... well...
trashy. I mean, purple and silver? And then there was GURPS, some funny
sounding thing by this guy who'd ran all those Car Wars ads in Dragon
Magazine.)

Flash Forward:

Wizards of the Coast stores sprung up in the Seattle area like weeds, then
almost overnight the collectable card game craze imploded and they all
vanished - but at least I saw the FFE reprints. Over the holidays this past
December I visited my parents and made my yearly pilgrimage to The Sentry
Box, and picked up the first JTAS reprint. Mmmm, nostalgia!

When I got back home I dug up my box-o-Traveller stuff and fell in love
again. Among my treasures at home was a hand-drawn poster of explored space
derived from the Imperium Map poster and the alien module sector names, and
dot-matrix printouts of sectors from an Apple II (in full 72-DPI glory) -
I've always been a map aficionado. Since then I've ordered a few more FFE
reprints and have started picking up other things on eBay. And, of course,
Googling for fun stuff.

Projects:

I'm always flitting from one project to another. I had an idea for a couple
of Traveller related projects so I thought I'd put something together before
saying "Hi!". I mentioned my "Alien Module 0: Vilani" project before. That's
basically stalled. But I got the other one to a somewhat presentable state.

I popped by http://jtas.net/travelleratlas/ and thought "cool!" at first,
then realized that most of the maps had been generated by hand. Aaaaaaah!
That just makes my teeth hurt with sympathy pain. Also, Google Maps had just
gone beta, and I found a copy of GURPS Traveller at Half Price Books (which
features the Imperium Map in a "console" frame) to I created a conceptual
blend of all of the above:

http://inexorabletash.members.winisp.net/maps/map.htm

I've tested in IE6 and Firefox (so it should work with the latest
Netscape/Mozilla browsers). Click and drag in the map, zoom in, go wild.
You'll need a decent 'net connection. Note that it's generating all of the
tile images on the fly, so I hope it can relieve some of the tedium of
maintaining projects like the one at jtas.net.

(If you're curious, it's a tiny C# ASP.NET app with less than 1400 lines of
code. There's a "readme" on the site with other details. And yes, I've fired
off the requisite mail to Marc.)

If you do just one thing with the map, set the scale to 64 (Subsector) and
select Regina/Spinward Marches.

If you do just two things with the map, visit Regina, but also set the scale
to 16 (Sector) and pan around the Imperium to get a sense of scale. (I also
recommend turning on "all" sector names.)

If you do just three things with the map, visit Regina, then pan across the
Imperium, but finally set the scale to 64 (Subsector) and select
Capital/Core. Then retrace the steps of the Sylean Federation Scout Service,
and try to make your way to Vland or Terra. It's a humbling trek.

..

I'd also like to share my thoughts on a research paper that recently crossed
my desk, titled succinctly enough "Applications of the 4 color printing
process in the Rule of Man". After finishing Stanislaw Lem's "A Perfect
Vacuum", a masterful work that I should have experienced much earlier in my
life and I heartily recommend to others, this pseudo-scientific treatise
seemed a relevant read to tackle next. Alas, especially when viewed in the
light of the prior text, this research paper left me disillusioned.

While the author should be commended for tackling such a difficult task, it
is clear that nearly any reader of "Applications." is likely to be
disappointed. Those readers who are unfamiliar with the debate - that subtle
differences between Solomani and Vilani color vision was a prominent factor
in both the rise and subsequent fall of the Ramshackle Empire - will be
bewildered by cursory detail that the author provides as background to his
hypothesis. More educated readers who are already aware of the controversy
will undoubtedly find that the detail of the investigation - such as the
psychological impact of subtle gamut shifts - are, while undoubtedly
groundbreaking in their insights and thoroughness, are too disconnected from
the larger psycho- and socio-historical analysis to support the conclusions
drawn.

As background for readers who fall into the former camp, perhaps it is worth
grounding the discussion. Researchers of the Traveller Canon established
many years ago that the fictional Vilani branch of Humaniti who populated
what they called the Ziru Sirka, or Grand Empire of Stars, and that within
the contemporary context is called the First or Vilani Imperium, differed
only slightly from the Solomani, or Terran branch. Among the subtle
differences documented were slight changes in proteins such as blood
clotting factors; this invariably led to the conclusion that many other
subtle physiological changes were implied. Chief among these was that color
vision would be slightly affected. Simply put, when compared to the Solomani
baseline, the Vilani would experience colors in a more vibrant fashion.

This is akin to the "taster/non-taster" genotypes, where one human genotype
("tasters") has a markedly higher density of taste receptors when compared
to the other ("non-taster"). The practical experience is that from a
"taster" perspective, "non-tasters" crave spicy food. From a "non-taster"
perspective, "tasters" prefer bland food. In each case, the preferred food
produces the required stimulation; too much or too little stimulation (by
spicy or bland food) is literally distasteful.

The impact of this on Vilani and Solomani vision and thus visual style
preferences is well documented in the TML Archives. From a Vilani
perspective, the Solomani prefer garish and busy schemes. From a Solomani
perspective, the Vilani prefer bland or muted colors. Interestingly, this
same facet is documented in reference works on the Vargr, who have even
further muted color experience than the Solomani, and thus prefer even more
use of vibrant and contrasting colors, to the point of being extremely
offensive to the Vilani.

Against that background (which should be familiar to all but the most
closeted of readers), the author of "Applications." attempts to show that
the CMYK, or four-color printing process, which is adapted to "real" human
(or Terran/Solomani) vision, would be ill suited for producing content that
would appease Vilani viewers. The core of the author's hypothesis is that
when faced with the garish four-color scheme as imposed by the Solomani, the
Vilani would be forced into a state of mild cognitive dissonance with any
printed material. Starting from this reasonably solid premise, the author
then leaps to unjustified conclusions.

During the Rule of Man, ". this would have applied to all aspects of printed
life," writes the author, ". from propaganda posters to the very paper
currency the Ramshackle Empire relied upon to stave off the inevitable Fall
of Night." While the scientific grounding of much of the paper, referencing
studies on color vision conducted with real humans and computer-simulated
gamut shifts measured against reading retention and task completion speed,
sets new standards for scientific research into fictional peoples,
inflammatory and obviously culturally biased claims positing the Solomani as
desperate conquerors detract from the impact of the work.

At the end of the day, "Applications." is fascinating, and for anyone
interested in scientific speculation within the Traveller Universe it sets a
high standard. I don't think I have seen such attention to detail in the
grounding research before. Unfortunately, the conclusions which are drawn
from the work are so tenuous that they should not appear in a scholarly
work, no matter how imaginary the subjects.
Jason Barnabas
2005-04-23 17:36:01 UTC
Permalink
*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
Using true random rolls, all planets in Traveller would have an
average population of 1,714,674,211.25.
---------------------------------------------------------------
1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 + 8 + 9 = 45

45 * 1 * 1 = 45
45 * 10 * 2 = 900
45 * 100 * 3 = 13,500
45 * 1,000 * 4 = 180,000
45 * 10,000 * 5 = 2,250,000
45 * 100,000 * 6 = 27,000,000
45 * 1,000,000 * 5 = 225,000,000
45 * 10,000,000 * 4 = 1,800,000,000
45 * 100,000,000 * 3 = 13,500,000,000
45 * 1,000,000,000 * 2 = 90,000,000,000
45 * 10,000,000,000 * 1 = 450,000,000,000

45 + 900 + 13,500 + 180,000 + 2,250,000 + 27,000,000 +
225,000,000 + 1,800,000,000 + 13,500,000,000 +
90,000,000,000 + 450,000,000,000 = 555,554,444,445

555,554,444,445 / (36 * 9) = 555,554,444,445 / 324 =
1,714,674,211.25
_______________________________________________

I must be travelling,
Jason
Joshua Bell
2005-04-23 17:47:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by traveller
Very way cool map! I love combining a database with a powerful front end...
As an FYI for the CS geeks in the audience, there is no formal "database"
involved. The code just slurps the .SEC files into .NET object arrays; the
rest of the data is in XML format and deserialized into objects using .NET's
native support. In this case, a true structured database would be overkill
for the small amount of data present. I just rely on the OS to page data
into memory when appropriate, and the web server to cache objects across
sessions.

Also, the code should be easily adapted to creating printed maps - i.e.
given a .SEC file and some additional metadata, output the corresponding LBB
Supplement pages at 1200dpi. That is another project on my "to-do" list that
will probably remain in limbo for a few years. However, if someone is
feeling the urge to create one of those by hand, you could probably guilt me
into working on it.
Post by traveller
One note - the dropdown for the scale - the background is black and
tends to get lost in the map.
I'm using IE6 on windows 2000 pro.
Noted. Strangely, I think there was a white border on the drop-down at one
point, and it got lost during an edit, but I may be imagining things. I'll
consolidate the feedback and make an update at some point.
Post by traveller
Now - if you could impliment a search function...
I've been thinking about that. The architecture would be an entry box that
lets you plunk in a planet name; it would query a web service on the back
end using asynchronous HTTP and ship the coordinates down, and the
client-side architecture would navigate. (Which is to say, if I end up with
a few free hours...)
Post by traveller
and maybe jump routes...
That should also be easy; if someone has SEC files with the jump route info
I can add that pretty easily. Given the data, that sort of thing would only
take 15-20 minutes to add. (Making the dragging work cross-browser took
almost as much time as doing the whole world rendering code.)

Joshua
s***@shadowgard.com
2005-04-24 00:11:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joshua Bell
Post by traveller
Now - if you could impliment a search function...
I've been thinking about that. The architecture would be an entry box that
lets you plunk in a planet name; it would query a web service on the back
end using asynchronous HTTP and ship the coordinates down, and the
client-side architecture would navigate. (Which is to say, if I end up with
a few free hours...)
Don't forget to allow for multiple matches. As I recall there are
*several* duplicated world names.


--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com
traveller
2005-04-24 01:03:26 UTC
Permalink
And a single heavy gun can make all the difference in a battle.

"[i]The Gun[/i]" by C.S. Forester (the guy who wrote '[i]The African
Queen[/i]' and all of the Horatio Hownblower books) is about a gang of
Banditos in Spain that find an 18-pounder gun. Since the occupying French
never expect the Spainards to bring a Seige Cannon with them, the French
outposts aren't prepared for it. The Banditos kick some serious French
butt...

Hmm...

Adventure Seed
==============
"The Gun"
A small band of Mercs come across a crashed and deserted Imperial Marine
Transport ship. They search it, find a lot of skeletons, and a single crate
that's pretty much intact in the cargo hold. Upon examination, it's a:

Roll 1D6:
1) PMFG-15 with plenty of spare power packs
2) an Air/Raft with a mounted Fusion Gun
3) two PMFG-15's
4) a PMFG-15 - but it's broke. Electronics:2 can scrounge parts and repair
5-6) the crate is marked "SPARES", but there are enough spare parts to
assemble a complete working PMFG-15...with the right skill

A working heavy weapon would greatly raise the Team's status as a Merc
Outfit. This could be a 'reward' after the Team has gone up against an
outfit with a Heavy Weapon (so they can appreciate the damage these beasties
can do).

And perhaps a few Imperial eyebrows will be raised when an unlicensed Heavy
Weapon is realised to have fallen into a Merc Team's hands...

-Joel
Parkway
2005-04-26 21:30:32 UTC
Permalink
Hate to rain on your parade, but the 'cannon' version of Battledress & FGMP
aren't that dangerous.

Battledress gets an armour value of 20, which means you can get through it
with a hit from a RAM grenade or a laser rifle. It's no better than combat
armour at stopping bullets - IMTU at least, its advantage lies in the fact
that the extra strength built in lets the user carry all sorts of other junk
that helps keep them alive on the battlefield - like maser communicators,
sensors to pick up targeting lasers linked to smoke & chaff grenade
launchers. It helps keep them safe from the really heavy stuff and lets
them carry those unfeasibly big guns close enough to do some good.

Most of the time, the cheap stuff will do the job just fine - if you can
afford to take the losses.

Cheers
Parkway

----- Original Message -----
Post by traveller
A working heavy weapon would greatly raise the Team's status as a Merc
Outfit. This could be a 'reward' after the Team has gone up against an
outfit with a Heavy Weapon (so they can appreciate the damage these beasties
can do).
And perhaps a few Imperial eyebrows will be raised when an unlicensed Heavy
Weapon is realised to have fallen into a Merc Team's hands...
-Joel
William Hopper
2005-04-27 12:01:40 UTC
Permalink
Parkway wrote:
----- Original Message -----
Post by traveller
<>
And perhaps a few Imperial eyebrows will be raised when an unlicensed
Heavy Weapon is realised to have fallen into a Merc Team's hands...
Hate to rain on your parade, but the 'cannon' version of Battledress & FGMP
aren't that dangerous.
OTOH, if it were a battlefield meson gun...I would _really_ expect to
see some eyebrows raised...
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.3 - Release Date: 4/25/2005
Jason Barnabas
2005-04-27 16:21:18 UTC
Permalink
*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
Post by William Hopper
OTOH, if it were a battlefield meson gun...I would _really_
expect to see some eyebrows raised...
The smallest canon meson gun I've ever seen was in Striker
and was a small bay weapon. You might be able to mount it
in a very large tank, but an MPMG, I don't think so.
_______________________________________________

I must be travelling,
Jason
Henry J. Cobb
2005-04-27 17:38:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason Barnabas
The smallest canon meson gun I've ever seen was in Striker
and was a small bay weapon. You might be able to mount it
in a very large tank, but an MPMG, I don't think so.
By GURPS Traveller, a 10 pound meson gun is GT TL 16 or CT TL 21.
--
Henry J. Cobb
http://www.io.com/~hcobb/
David Shayne
2005-04-23 18:18:35 UTC
Permalink
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 22:43:32 -0700
I'd also like to share my thoughts on a research
paper that recently crossed my desk, titled
succinctly enough "Applications of the 4 color
printing process in the Rule of Man".
Hmm. Interesting abstract. What journal is the full
paper in?

:)

David
Douglas Berry
2005-04-23 17:12:40 UTC
Permalink
At 10:43 PM 4/22/05, Joshua Bell raced into the room, and announced the
Post by Joshua Bell
http://inexorabletash.members.winisp.net/maps/map.htm
Very nice!


--
Douglas Berry ***@mindspring.com
http://penguin_boy.home.mindspring.com/
http://livejournal.com/users/gridlore.html

Embrace Fascism. The uniforms look cool.
Author of GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces
Heavybolter
2005-04-23 19:20:42 UTC
Permalink
----- Original Message -----
Post by Joshua Bell
Okay, let me officially de-lurk. Hello, TML!
Howdy! Welcome aboard!
Post by Joshua Bell
I popped by http://jtas.net/travelleratlas/ and thought "cool!" at first,
then realized that most of the maps had been generated by hand. Aaaaaaah!
That just makes my teeth hurt with sympathy pain. Also, Google Maps had
just gone beta, and I found a copy of GURPS Traveller at Half Price Books
(which features the Imperium Map in a "console" frame) to I created a
http://inexorabletash.members.winisp.net/maps/map.htm
Wow dude, that's awesome! Bookmarked and marked for offline use when I
can't get a connection! Extremely useful!


Geoff
HeavybolterOKC on Yahoo! Messenger
Jason Barnabas
2005-04-23 17:59:09 UTC
Permalink
*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
Post by Joshua Bell
Okay, let me officially de-lurk. Hello, TML!
8><
8><
8><
Post by Joshua Bell
I'd also like to share my thoughts on a research paper that
recently crossed my desk, titled succinctly enough
"Applications of the 4 color printing process in the Rule of
Man". ...
8><

Good golly, Miss Molly. I do believe we have a winner.
AFAICR, that's the first newbie essey that actually hit the mark
that I've seen in this forum in a very long time.

Congratulations Mr. Bell and welcome to the TML. We'll be
looking for more from you soon.

Oh, I didn't mean to gloss over your mapping project, but
others have commented on it and I am stuck behind a PBX
and can only connect at 28.8. :-( On the brighter side, I'm
hoping to have DSL installed before the end of the month and
I'll have a peek then.
_______________________________________________

I must be travelling,
Jason
Kelly St.Clair
2005-04-23 22:08:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joshua Bell
http://inexorabletash.members.winisp.net/maps/map.htm
Wow! That's one hell of a project. Pretty good essay, too.

Welcome to the list.


--------------
Kelly St.Clair Official sponsor of the Galactic Frungy League
***@efn.org "FRUNGY: The Sport of KINGS!"
Infojunky
2005-04-23 22:56:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kelly St.Clair
Post by Joshua Bell
http://inexorabletash.members.winisp.net/maps/map.htm
Wow! That's one hell of a project. Pretty good essay, too.
I think we can give him a pass on the Newbie Essay....
--
Evyn

"Scientia Est Potentia"

http://ceecom.net
Jason Barnabas
2005-04-24 05:41:27 UTC
Permalink
*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
Post by Infojunky
I think we can give him a pass on the Newbie Essay....
IIRC, that *was* his Newbie Essay, assigned the last time he
delurked.
_______________________________________________

I must be travelling,
Jason
William Hopper
2005-04-23 23:24:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joshua Bell
http://inexorabletash.members.winisp.net/maps/map.htm
I've tested in IE6 and Firefox (so it should work with the latest
Netscape/Mozilla browsers). Click and drag in the map, zoom in, go
wild. You'll need a decent 'net connection. Note that it's generating
all of the tile images on the fly, so I hope it can relieve some of
the tedium of maintaining projects like the one at jtas.net.
The map is fantastic! I spent more time than I should have just
scrolling around.

A couple of notes...it looked good but I could not scroll in Netscape
7.2. Also, have you considered adding subsector names?
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.2 - Release Date: 4/21/2005
Joshua Bell
2005-04-24 05:19:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Hopper
A couple of notes...it looked good but I could not scroll in Netscape
7.2
Thanks for reporting the problem! Please try now - I believe I have fixed
the issue. (Despite the same code base between Firefox and Netscape, there
was a subtle difference in the handling of uninitialized DOM members, so I
was relying on a mis-feature. The code is happier now.)
Post by William Hopper
Also, have you considered adding subsector names?
Yes... I just need a data source for these. (If anyone wants to contribute,
I took the standard "sector names" text file and created an XML version.
Adding the subsector names to this file would be simple, but tedious.)

Joshua
William Hopper
2005-04-24 16:05:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joshua Bell
Post by William Hopper
A couple of notes...it looked good but I could not scroll in Netscape
7.2
Thanks for reporting the problem! Please try now - I believe I have
fixed the issue. (Despite the same code base between Firefox and
Netscape, there was a subtle difference in the handling of
uninitialized DOM members, so I was relying on a mis-feature. The code
is happier now.)
That fixed it!
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.2 - Release Date: 4/21/2005
Jason Barnabas
2005-04-25 08:55:49 UTC
Permalink
*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
8><
Post by Joshua Bell
Post by William Hopper
Also, have you considered adding subsector names?
Yes... I just need a data source for these. (If anyone wants to contribute,
I took the standard "sector names" text file and created an XML version.
Adding the subsector names to this file would be simple, but tedious.)
In the Imperium, most Counties (subsectors) have the same
name as the County Seat (subsector capitol).
_______________________________________________

I must be travelling,
Jason
Peter Trevor
2005-04-23 23:55:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joshua Bell
I grew up in Calgary, Alberta, and was lucky enough to attend an
elementary/Jr. High school mere blocks away from The Sentry Box
Hi Joshua.

I lived in Calgary in the 80s so I know the Sentry Box well (but
my high school was in the NW of the city).
Post by Joshua Bell
Over the holidays this past December I visited my parents and
made my yearly pilgrimage to The Sentry Box, and picked up the
first JTAS reprint. Mmmm, nostalgia!
You might like to check out some of the products from BITS
<http://www.bits.org.uk> which you can get in the US/Canada via
Gnometrader <http://www.gnometrader.com> ... or, if you're into
D20 there's QLI at <http://www.travellerrpg.com>.
Post by Joshua Bell
I popped by http://jtas.net/travelleratlas/ and thought "cool!"
at first, then realized that most of the maps had been generated
by hand. Aaaaaaah! That just makes my teeth hurt with sympathy
pain.
Then check out <Loading Image...> for
an example output from little program I wrote. (Its in VB6 but
I'm rewriting it into C# as part of the next major release.)



Regards PLST
<http://www.trisen.com/sol/default.asp>
Tyler Randy
2005-04-24 02:05:16 UTC
Permalink
Just a note,
The border between the Confederation and the Imperium
in the Solomani Rim Scetor, when viewed at the
subsector, level does not match the border as
depiceted in Classic Traveller Supplement 10.

Randy Tyler


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Joshua Bell
2005-04-24 04:11:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tyler Randy
Just a note,
The border between the Confederation and the Imperium
in the Solomani Rim Scetor, when viewed at the
subsector, level does not match the border as
depiceted in Classic Traveller Supplement 10.
Yeah - the Spinward Marches is particularly bad too. Which is to say: if we
know where the borders should be, my map is horribly off.

Read the notes in the "More information" link - the macro-scale detail
(borders, rifts) and micro-scale detail (individual parsecs) come from
different sources. In the case of parsecs it's all .SEC files. In the case
of the borders, I literally traced the Imperium Map with a mouse and scaled
it appropriately into vector shapes. So between a shaky mouse hand,
pixel-to-parsec-to-pixel scaling, and imprecise source material, it's far
from perfect.

Doing refined borders for well-known sectors should be simple, but also
extremely time consuming. The vectors took the most time of anything in the
project, and I don't think there is a public data source for the borders.
(If so, please let me know!) I'll definitely track it as a "To Do"

Joshua
d***@juno.com
2005-04-24 07:44:11 UTC
Permalink
Friend,
Welcome back, welcome to Kirkland, congrats on a choice job, and your analysis is worthy. You truly have too much time on your hands. Get back to wo-, wo-, that four letter thing you do in Redmond.

Cougashika - the other white meat in WA


___________________________________________________________________
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Now includes pop-up blocker!
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Glenn M. Goffin
2005-04-24 21:32:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joshua Bell
My name is Joshua Bell. I just turned 32, and am Canadian by birth,
but live in Kirkland, WA, USA with my wife Susan and our 2-year old
son Caspian.
I would say, given the quality and quantity of work in his initial
posting, that Mr. Bell be deemed to have fulfilled the newbie essay
requirement, as long as he has given his son a middle name that
begins with the letter C.
Post by Joshua Bell
By day I'm Lead Program Manager at Microsoft on the InfoPath
product.
This stain may be difficult to wash off, but your bravery is duly
noted.

--Glenn


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Panos Zarkadakis
2005-04-25 21:33:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joshua Bell
MT looked... well...
trashy. I mean, purple and silver?
From a Vilani perspective, the Solomani prefer garish and busy
schemes. From a Solomani
perspective, the Vilani prefer bland or muted colors. Interestingly,
this
same facet is documented in reference works on the Vargr, who have even
further muted color experience than the Solomani, and thus prefer even
more
use of vibrant and contrasting colors, to the point of being extremely
offensive to the Vilani.
I´m confused: was the MT cover designed by Vargr or are you of Vilani
blood? (:-)

btw: I really liked the cover art - does that mean I´m Vargr too?
Jason Barnabas
2005-04-26 02:31:55 UTC
Permalink
*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
Post by Panos Zarkadakis
btw: I really liked the cover art - does that mean I´m Vargr
too?
No Panos, that just means you have Vargrish taste. As to
whether that's good or bad, I'll leave to you to decide. ;-)
_______________________________________________

I must be travelling,
Jason
G***@aol.com
2005-04-27 06:33:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Parkway
Hate to rain on your parade, but the 'cannon' version of Battledress & FGMP
aren't that dangerous.
Battledress gets an armour value of 20
And we come back to defining "canon" again. Battledress has not always been
the cure-all that it grew into, but the FGMP has *always* been dangerous.
Pick your edition.

GC
"Grouchy Cuss" this week...
Parkway
2005-04-27 08:15:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by G***@aol.com
And we come back to defining "canon" again. Battledress has not always been
the cure-all that it grew into, but the FGMP has *always* been dangerous.
Pick your edition.
GC
"Grouchy Cuss" this week...
Oh yes, an FGMP is pretty much as good as it gets for 'portable' weaponry.
I wouldn't be that worried about a party getting hold of one IMTU at least -
it's only dangerous for as long as they can fuel, repair and maintain it.
Like modern jet-fighters, the really good stuff needs a lot of looking
after - If you don't have the full high-stellar repair & maintenance setup,
it'll fast become more dangerous to you than it is to the enemy. If you do
have that kind of support, you could easily manufacture half a dozen
grav-tanks while you're about it...

Cheers
Parkway
Robert Sanders
2005-04-30 03:49:03 UTC
Permalink
-----Original Message-----
From: tml-***@travellerrpg.com [mailto:tml-***@travellerrpg.com] On
Behalf Of Joshua Bell
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 1:44 AM
To: The Traveller Mailing List
Subject: [TML] Hello, TML

Okay, let me officially de-lurk. Hello, TML!
.
Okay, I had to pop back in and just say WOW!

Great job, and I really wish this was around during the grand ol days.

Heh, but this does make me think that Traveller is becoming the original
open source RPG... or OOSRPG!

B
Joshua Bell
2005-04-30 20:44:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Sanders
Okay, I had to pop back in and just say WOW!
Hopefully you're referring to the map, and not just my charming personality.
:)

A few notes:

- I've been making updates to the map in my spare time. At a scale of 8
pixels/parsec you now get "real" stars in addition to the pseudo-random
ones, so you can see what sectors have real data associated with them, sort
of like the "dot-map" format seen on many web sites.

- I've added a bunch of additional .SEC files gleaned from the web, so the
coverage area is now downright immense.

- Does anyone know what the classic criteria were for "no water present" vs
"water present" worlds were? It's not just Hydro > 0, or Hydro > 0, Atm < A.
E.g. Algine (Regina/Spinward Marches) is a run-of-the-mill 766
(size/hydro/atm) and yet it's displayed as no-water in the classic sources.

- Is there a more appropriate mailing list for discussions of this sort?

Joshua
Jason Barnabas
2005-05-03 01:27:29 UTC
Permalink
*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
Joshua Bell wrote:
8><
Post by Joshua Bell
- Does anyone know what the classic criteria were for "no
water present" vs "water present" worlds were? It's not just
Hydro > 0, or Hydro > 0, Atm < A. E.g. Algine (Regina/
Spinward Marches) is a run-of-the-mill 766 (size/hydro/atm)
and yet it's displayed as no-water in the classic sources.
Someone made a booboo. No water present means Hyd = 0.
You can't have a Hyd < 0. How would you get negative
water? ;-)

Oh, oh, I know, you use andrium and anxygen. But look out
when you try to drink it.
_______________________________________________

I must be travelling,
Jason

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